Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:01 Yeah, what's up everybody. This is Reverend Peter Watts of the black church still speaks. And I had the special opportunity to interview an award winning producer and writer from Houston, Texas named secure brown. Uh, he and I got connected cuz he heard one of our podcasts and reached out to me and said, Hey, I wanna get on your podcast and tell the people about the work that I'm doing at the intersection of both Christian faith and race. Uh, SKU brown is a again, a documentary of filmmaker and he is focusing on his new film called inherited. And so we're gonna talk about the film industry, the entertainment industry and our Christian faith and race and how these things intersect with one another. So let's jump in right now to listen to this interview and podcast with OU brown.
Speaker 0 00:00:53 All right, everybody. I am excited, uh, today, uh, have a special guest, uh, brother, uh, OU brown, and I'm gonna give him an opportunity, uh, to introduce himself. But first I just wanna say welcome to the black church. Still speaks podcast brother. Absolutely man saku brown, man. I'm glad to be here. Big fan of the show, big proponent of the black church, man, love the, you know, the conversation, the doctoral work that you're a part of man. I'm, I'm just glad to be here, man, that you, you, you let a creative on the show, man. I feel not worthy almost <laugh> come on now, man. I love creative creatives are the ones that set the culture. Uh, creatives are the ones that, that determine like how the world, uh, works. Uh it's because of the, you know, God was a creative right from the beginning in the beginning, God created.
Speaker 0 00:01:43 And so if we don't, if we ain't got no creatives, we, you know, we're missing a whole, you know, characteristic of, of God from the beginning. And so I just wanna, again, thank you for, um, uh, uh, popping into our podcast and man, thank you for, uh, being a listener as well. And, and so I just wanna, um, to have you just introduce yourself to the folks, uh, just give us a little background on, uh, who you are, um, and what you are about and uh, and what your passion is, you know, around, uh, this topic of the black church. Absolutely. Well, my name is saku brown, um, from Atlanta, Georgia, um, born to west African parents, but pretty much born and raised here in the states. Um, currently residing in Houston, Texas, and, um, man, I'm a husband, a father. Um, but most importantly, man, I'm a servant to the king man.
Speaker 0 00:02:34 I, you know, got saved in 2006, not growing up in the church. Um, you know, you can't be black and not recognized the church and the power of the church, but didn't grow up in, in community life. But once I got saved, um, you know, I was, I was radically, um, saved and um, just, just love, love, um, God's people, um, God's word and, um, advancing his kingdom in any way. Um, I can. And um, and, um, so serving my local church in many capacities from media ministry to, um, I'm a staff pastor there and, um, but I'm also a, a creative, right. Hence why we're kind, we're kind of here today. Um, I'm a, I'm a film producer, so I write, edit, directed, um, film, short films and documentary projects. And, um, I, I have a over, um, a overwhelming burning desire. Hopefully we'll get into what, what, what sparked that.
Speaker 0 00:03:27 But I, I, I, um, I want to tell stories about black Christians, right? Just, you know, I feel our, our perspective and our experience is unique, but, but very, very real and relatable and, and, and it allows us to touch on more topics, not, not only, not only things concerning the church, that's, you know, speaking of the, the value of the black church, the black church has always been able to address the ills of society. Right. So yeah, I have a desire and a, and a focus to tell stories that primarily focus, um, on black Christian life and that intersect our faith, um, and, and our race. Yeah, man, you, you're probably one of the most unique guests that I've had, uh, in a, in a, in a while, uh, outside of, uh, I think Chris ARD, uh, Fox sports analyst, uh, because, uh, your, uh, context is within the church, but your story is, is quite different from a lot of the people that I've, I've talked to.
Speaker 0 00:04:24 So I heard a couple things from, uh, uh, from west Africa, uh, but really, uh, uh, raised here in America. So there's dynamics there about, uh, the black church and then, uh, not being saved, uh, until 2006. And so not growing up in the black church. Uh, so there's some, some, some, some talk there, um, and then about, uh, black Christian life and, and what that looks like, and being able to tell that story through film and media as a creative, um, you know, there's a lot of, uh, uh, discussion points there. I think I'm gonna just throw all those questions I had, uh, prepared out. Uh, and we just gonna have this conversation because <laugh> go ahead and this thing runs deep too, right? So I'm, I'm from Liberia, right. And if, if you're familiar with the history of, of, yes, that's what Christianity man started.
Speaker 0 00:05:09 It started by free slaves. And I mean, my, my sister, a few years back, we, we literally, you know, kind of did, you know, tracked our, our, our history all the way back to the people that got on the boat. Right? Yes. Just so happens that my family folks, you know, they were, they were Christians, you know what I'm saying? Like, so it's always, it's, it's always a pleasure just to see that God was, God was always there, always there, always at work. And that, uh, Europeans did not bring Christianity. Oh, absolutely. Right. That's a, that's a, that's a false home. Right. And, and, um, uh, you know, I talked about my doctoral work and so part of that work is looking at the history of the black church and part of that history, uh, that I situate in my work is, uh, in, uh, Libya, um, from, uh, Dr.
Speaker 0 00:05:56 Uh, Thomas Oden who wrote, uh, who wrote the Africa, Christian mark Christianity. Yeah. And so he has a, he has several other, uh, books after that talking about, uh, mark, uh, the, um, disciple mark and his, uh, travel in Africa. And, and then in Libya, uh, where, uh, Christianity was birthed, um, with Africans, um, outside of the, uh, white gays. Uh, and so, uh, so it's very important. So it's, it's good. It's good to, and it's much, I guess, you know, sometimes we kind of confuse current day AF north Africa with the Africa. You're speaking about, it's not the same, even though the elements are there, man, you, right. You take a long look at KFI and you like, man, is this, he could be, you know what I'm saying? Like, but, um, but, um, but yeah, but no, north, north Africa then looks a lot different, you know, than now you had the Cru cliche and all that, that kind of came through that, that really sned out a lot of the element of Christianity that was there.
Speaker 0 00:06:54 But I mean, you, you just, you don't even need history. You just look at the Bible, like, you know, the Ethiopia unit was the right, the Ethiopia unit, like, wait a minute, that's the first Gentile church stands to this day. You know what I mean? That's right. That's right. Yeah. And I don't know if you've heard of, uh, Dr. Vince spa to, um, oh, absolutely. Oh yeah, man. He just, he just did a podcast. Um, I just, it came across it, uh, yesterday where he talks about how, um, uh, uh, African Christianity was vibrant and even, um, during the council of C, uh, C child said, Dean, the C Sadian council. Um, and, and how, uh, European Christians were trying to come and, uh, uh, squash, what African thought was about the two nature or the one nature of, of Jesus and, and African Christians, like, no it's one nature.
Speaker 0 00:07:44 Um, and then European was like, no, it's two natures. And, and so how the oppression of the Roman, uh, uh, uh, Christians had came and was suppressing, uh, that whole thought. And now people go with this European thought about the nature of Christ, whereas in Africa, um, where Christianity was birthed, they have a different take on it. Hence the, the schism between Eastern Orthodox and Western Christianity, it's, it goes deep, man. It goes deep. I mean, and it, it is the unfortunate, I tell people all the time. Right. Cuz you know, I mean all the, you know, the critique of the church being as Christianity or white man's religion, it's like, like let's just, let's peel all the layers back. Cuz if you are talking like that, you obviously recognize the impact of colonialism, right. Imperialism white SREM you recognize all of that. Would it surprise you that white people also snatched Christianity?
Speaker 0 00:08:34 You know what I mean? Like just right. You know, like, like, I mean like, could you, could you just think that that's a, is that a possibility, right? You could probably tell me more than I already know about how they've snatched other things. Why is it so unbelievable that they could have also snatched Christianity? Yeah. You know what I mean? So, and that's, but it's, for me, as I mentioned, I, I wasn't, I wasn't, um, you know, raised a Christian. Um, and not that I didn't go to church ever. Cause again, like you, you end up in the church. I just never got that deep. And when I got saved, I was fortunate. Um, my, my, my pastor, my spiritual father, Dr. Dana Carson, um, pastors of church, um, here in, um, Houston, but we, I mean, he, we have worldwide ministry reflections of Christ kingdom, but, um, he, you know, he's, you know, he's, as pro-black, as you can get, you know, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, preaches the kingdom of God boldly scholar in his own.
Speaker 0 00:09:28 Right. But, but he's always kind of, you know, focus on the Africanness of Christianity. Yeah. And I I've been fortunate and I needed that man, because when I was unsaved, like, I mean, I, I didn't outright disrespect, Christians mm-hmm <affirmative> but you know, I just, I didn't really, really get and understand like why cuz I, you know, like everyone, you know, you have questions about, you know, all of this white Jesus imagery and yep. You know what I mean? Like, but you know, it's, it's like, it's, it's just, it's been one of the things when you actually learn the actual history and, and the imprints of what, how God has really always used Africans, you know what I'm saying? Like, yes. It's like, it's amazing to me. And what's funny as, as um, you know, Europe is post Christian they're long post America is rapidly becoming post, um, Christian.
Speaker 0 00:10:20 Right. You look around the world, you know, where is the faith growing? It's growing in Africa the fastest. Yeah. Right. You know, so on a very literal sense, you know, we're amongst the people really preserving the faith today. That's right. Um, so, um, yeah. It's, it's, it's amazing. It's amazing, man. It's amazing, man. I, so how did you come to, to, to, to follow Jesus? What, what, what, what was the, you know, situation, experience or yeah. How did you come to commit a life to Christ? You, you didn't grow up in the church, but you oftentimes went to church because you are, uh, from a black family, African, uh, family. And so there were some church ties there. And so, um, yeah. How did, how did that happen? What was that, uh, experience? Yeah, my, my south vivid experience was crazy thing. Um, you know, I, I actually in like early adulthood, I like maybe early twenties.
Speaker 0 00:11:09 I started going to church and, um, was, was a regular, it was a little small church mm-hmm <affirmative> and um, so, you know, if you've ever been to a small black people list, you go to a small church, you got all the adults and you got the kids and it's normally about maybe six or seven people in their twenties. You know what I'm saying? We get thrust into leadership, you know, that's right for me. I, I think I look back at it now. Um, it kept me there, but it was, you know, I really wasn't at the place to be leading anything for God. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, mm-hmm <affirmative> at that point I shouldn't have been. Right. Right. So I was in the church, but you know, still doing all the crazy stuff. Yep. But I mean, but through, through a, a real bad breakup, you know, that, that really humbled me, like God used that to, um, you know, to really break me down to the point where, you know, I heard his voice for the first time.
Speaker 0 00:11:57 Like, and it's like, I remember like it was yesterday. It's like, man, like, like man, that's that's God. Yeah. And what am I doing? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And from that moment on, you know, the hunger and desire for his word and just my, my overall commitment level, period just changed. Right. Right. But I, but like I said, I always bring up the early part because, um, you know, um, you, you, speaking of early church fathers, you know, St. Augustine talked about the visible and the invisible church, I don't know if you ever are familiar with that concept. You know, the visible church is the church that we see and that we all attend. But within that church is the invisible church of people that's really saved. You know what I'm saying? That was an early church. Father's take on it. But you know, you use scripture, you know, um, you know, Christ was talking about the wheat and the tear and all of 'em gonna be in there together, and God's gonna come in and separate that.
Speaker 0 00:12:46 But the inference there is that, you know, people that's for God is there and people that ain't for God. And I always very relatively, cuz I, I work with youth and young adults. I'm like, man, you can't, you can't sneak one past me. I was here years. You know what I'm saying? A fool. I know how that look, know what I'm saying? I know, I know the hustle when I see it. Absolutely. Right. But man, but once I got saved, um, as the scripture says, man, um, I found my spiritual father and he's really kind of rooted and grounded me and, and built me doctrinally man. And um, so, so yeah, but that, to answer your question, that's how I kind of matriculated, um, to, to, to the man that I am today.
Speaker 0 00:13:28 Well, thank you, man. I, um, wanna just, uh, jump in then, uh, a, about your film. Tell, tell me a little bit about your, um, your, your gift in your call in the world, around being a creative and a filmmaker. And um, and I wanna talk about this film that, uh, you shared with me and I want people to get to know yeah. Know about this work. Absolutely. Well, man, my, my story in the filmmaking is, um, truly God and the favor of God, opening doors out of just a burning desire. As I mentioned, um, I've been working with youth and young adults in church before I would say before, I would say, but one of the things you, you, um, when, when you're working with them, you realize that there's a lack of resources that really speaks to where black youth and young adults are.
Speaker 0 00:14:18 You know what I mean? I'm not saying that there's not any resources out there. There's some amazing ones, right? Like, you know, from Francis chin to, you know, there's, there's some good stuff out there. Yeah. But it doesn't, you know, you always, I always found myself like Rosetta stone in the middle trying to, you know, break it down and make it, make, break it down to their level. And I was like, man, like I really wish there was some stuff out there that, that, you know, can, can not only be informative for, 'em not only give them Christian themes mm-hmm <affirmative> but can be relevant. They can relate to it. They can see themselves in it, man. I, you know, um, so, um, so that's what kind of thrust me in, into filmmaking, um, wrote my first wrote my first script, amazing grace, which was a film about an UN SAV couple, you know, what happens with one of 'em decides to be open, to having a relationship with God mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, wrote, um, produced that with a, a company and um, my, my producing partner, Humphrey brown, he directed, you know, that film and we, and I'm, I'm gonna work my way to him.
Speaker 0 00:15:15 His name is important, man, cuz that's, that's my brother in Christ and we've worked on all these films together, but um, but amazing grace, um, went on to be nominated from, I, I got a best screenplay nod at the international Christian film festival, which is the largest CRI Christian film festival. Um, you know, it's like the Oscars. Huh? Yeah. It's like the Oscars for, for Christians, right? Yeah. We'll talk about that too. <laugh> yeah. But, um, but yeah, but the, the film did well, um, wrote another film called don't even go and then inherited. Um, I wrote in the midst of the pandemic, which was just, that's why I said this film in particular really resonated and hits home by then. I, you know, and most of my learning in the filmmaking, um, is just grit grind and YouTube university. Like I told myself everything from cinematography to, to screenwriting, to editing everything I, you know, was just kind of trial and error.
Speaker 0 00:16:12 So by the time I got to inherit it, right. Like I, I knew how to really kind of craft the story and um, inherit it, you know, um, a, the pandemic breaks in March 20, 20 myself and my producer partner, Humphrey brown had several other projects in the line and we kept trying to wait out. We're gonna wait it out, you know? Yeah. It's gonna be, it's gonna be over this month. Oh, dang. It's still here. No, maybe two more months. And after a while, you know, by like, it's like, man, this thing is here to stay. We still dealing with it. Right. A large degree. Right. And um, and finally, um, like I said, truly, this is truly a God move peak. Um, and, and we, we do an annual conference at my church, every July convocation and, um, Humphrey and I, we both serve at the same church.
Speaker 0 00:16:55 Um, and he, we work on the media team and he sent me this video to edit. That was, was totally virtual. Everybody was at home and safe. Yeah. Hilarious video. I edited it. And I, you know, I just told them, man, I was like, man, you know what, I'm gonna write a story that lives virtually not only will it be impactful, compelling, and relatable, most importantly is gonna keep everybody safe, the cast, the crew. Um, and, um, just let me, let me prey on it, you know, and, um, I'm gonna get back with you. And, um, went, you know, went in, went into, went into Mount Sinai and um, you know, God began to speak this, this incredible story, which, you know, um, in terms of the plot line, just for the viewers inherited tells a story of a group of siblings, um, who are PKS, you know, this is Christian podcast.
Speaker 0 00:17:45 Yep. Yep. So I don't have to explain what that is. They're PKS and their father who's struggling with early signs. Dementia comes up missing during the pandemic, right. And the film just really spells out this very sticky situation on how they're gonna handle it. And, um, again, I wrote that story from a very personal place. Um, caring for aging parents is I, I think, um, as we've screened this film to private dementia organization, caring for aging parents organizations, um, we're getting ready to do some a, a R P Alzheimer's type. I mean, we're screening it kind of doing private screenings everywhere. And, um, it's a very relatable situation that I think everybody, um, needs to prepare themselves for. Cause we, yes, sir. We, we tend to be extremely reactive to it, but it's coming, you know what I mean? Yeah. And if you're a believer, you know, I, I believe this is a part of what the scripture says honoring your parents, so your days may be long.
Speaker 0 00:18:39 Right. Right. So, but, but this, you know, this film really tells, tells this story of this family reacting right. Right. To being in this, this crazy situation. Yeah. Right. And, um, and now the spiritual things we, we can unpack and explore, um, maybe later in the conversation, but, but, um, but yeah, but, but that film like that that's, that was kind of like my matriculation to, to getting us to this film man. And, um, it, like I said, the, the impact I've I've I've written stuff. And even though the stuff that got, um, um, recognized by the international Christian film festival was, was powerful. But man, this, this inherited story, I, I just, I mean, to see organizations like they, they, the, the, of course the stories about Christians, they don't even care cuz they're like, man, this, like, we don't have anything out here that speaks this specifically and this relevant to, to black folks.
Speaker 0 00:19:32 Right. Like, cause you know, uh, yeah, so that, that's a whole nother topic in terms of some of the, the resources that we have to touch on this topic, caring for Asian parents is it's lacking, that's lacking as well. And we've created something that not only can fit in the church world, but also can fit in the, in the, you know, in the, the secular world, secular world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure, man. I mean, it's a, it's a, like you said, it's a real thing and it's not, it's not a Christian thing. It's a, it's a humanity thing to where, uh, everybody's gonna come across, uh, that bridge at, you know, at some point or another as my, uh, pastor would say, just keep on living. Right. <laugh> and so pretty soon you'll be taking care of your parents and then your kids will be, uh, needing to take care of you so forth and so on.
Speaker 0 00:20:18 So, you know, as the world keeps turning, uh, you know, this process, uh, you know, keeps happening. And so, uh, this well, when you think about, uh, the film inherited and, and all that, uh, it's, uh, doing right now and, and what you're preparing to do with the film, how, how would you, uh, like to see the black church, uh, uh, use this film as a tool, uh, within their local church or even in their denomination? How, how could this film be used as a tool for topics of discussion and resourcing and, um, and awareness and you know, all the things that's around that. Absolutely. Um, we're in early stages, but it's already happening. I'm gonna, I'm gonna plug a, a very important organization to your viewers, please go and Google 'em, um, because they're doing some amazing work. Um, it's an organization by a, a woman named Dr.
Speaker 0 00:21:10 Farron EPS called alter. And, um, essentially she's partnering with churches to provide education on how to essentially service and support your D dementia congregants. Right. Mm-hmm and she, and she's seeing the value like, man, I, every church we're partnered with, they have to see this right. Because what, what the, the challenge we have when it comes, cuz I, I would just, I would just kind of group this, if you allow me into the mental illness space. Yeah, yeah. And, um, dementia. It's, it's one of those things where, um, the church, I think we we've, um, you know, and it, I don't think it's intentional or bad, bad spirited. Right. I just think we've not taken the mental illness serious enough. Right. Brain, brain health, serious enough. We'll we'll take sugar, health, hot blood pressure health, right, right. Heart health. We'll take all of that serious.
Speaker 0 00:22:03 We'll pray for you. We'll advise you to see that doctor. We will advise you to continue to take them meds and we'll have a health fair in the parking lot. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. Absolutely. We'll bring the nurses out. You know what I'm saying? Like during, if you fall out during service, we going to deal with you. Right. And, um, but when it comes to brain health, right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and that that's, and I'll be honest, man. Like we, we, you know, God has used our creativity. We weren't thinking as deep as what has happened with the film mm-hmm <affirmative> cause now thought leaders in the space are seeing the film and informing us on details. As I pined, I wasn't even thinking about right. Yeah. The early signs of dementia, um, number one, dementia is, is ravishing the black community. And they're estimated, um, by 2030 that it's even gonna have greater impacts.
Speaker 0 00:22:51 And a lot of that brain trauma, I think is directly related to our experience as black people, cuz it's already bad enough being a Christian. You know what I'm saying? You had black on top of it. Right. You know what I'm saying? So our experience, um, it is causing and leading towards dementia, but the early signs of things like dementia begin 10, 15 years before it really manifest. Right. So her organization, when she saw the film, she's like, man, I got to get all the churches we're partnered with. They have to get all their people to see this because this is, this is why I want to have these conversations, but I want to be proactive, not reacting. Yeah. How can you get people to begin to prepare for this inevitable moment? Um, spiritually, mentally, financially mm-hmm <affirmative> you know what I mean? Like we that's gonna cost.
Speaker 0 00:23:42 Yeah. It's it's listen. Um, we, we, we were on this podcast, um, last week, um, with some attorneys, right. They, they do a, a caring for aging parents, black caring for aging parents podcast. And um, she's a, you know, she's an attorney. So she, she sees the devastation that happens in probate. Yeah. And how not preparing can wipe out all your family's wealth. Yeah. Right. But she's saying, and she's saying that family's always coming to her. How can you prepare me for death? She's like, no, no, no. Like we can talk that conversation, but let's also have the conversation about what happens if you live in unhealthy. Cause that can, that can wipe out all, anything you've built before, you know? So it, I mean, so to me on so many different levels, I think this film is gonna help people have those very heartfelt conversations with their loved ones care for black people, you know?
Speaker 0 00:24:35 Um, you know, we are, we're not a nuclear family. People, you know what I'm saying? Like our families, you know what I'm saying? Like our family, everybody could be your family. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? Like for care for us, ain't even always just about our parents. Right. I care for my godmother. I care for my play sister. Yeah. I care for my, like our, like we, we, you know, we it's that UN BTU. Right. Tu and, and statistics show that like minorities I'll, I'll put brown people in here. They're, they're just like as black and brown people, like we take care of our own. We're not the ones to quickly send them away into homes and stuff like that. Right. So, so long short, man, I just, this, this film is really helping spark some serious kind of conversations on, on, um, you know, um, getting people prepared for the inevit
Speaker 0 00:25:24 Man. This is, this is such an important, uh, topic, you know, especially, uh, within the context of the black church and especially for, I would say gen X, uh, uh, I'm in the gen X, uh, generation. And so my, you know, uh, mom, uh, who's still alive is, you know, in the boomer generation. And so she's aging, she lives with us. Um, and so as you're talking, my brain is spinning and just thinking about all of the things that yeah, we need to prepare for. Um, and just think about what's in place. What's not in place thinking about, uh, again, the, the, the generational wealth that my wife and I are creating and setting up and how, you know, one non know if this is a word, but one non planning moment could wipe out everything that we've been trying to, to build, to take care of my mother, not even, uh, thinking about my wife's, my wife's, uh, mom and dad who are, is even older than my mother.
Speaker 0 00:26:22 And so, um, this is, this is real important. I'm, I'm glad we are having this conversation and, and as believers, right. Just, you know, um, you you're, you're a well learned, man. I know, you know, that word, right? If you, if you think of the faith, the people that our faith sits on top of the Jewish group, mm-hmm, <affirmative> they thought generationally and they thought wealth, and this is the theme that resonates through the film. Right. You know, preparing generationally. Yep. Um, although I wrote this film in July of 2020, the seeds of this film were actually planted by my pastor, Dr. Dana Carson, back in 2009, um, he preached a sermon on, you know, thinking generationally. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know what I mean, how, you know, and from that moment on Pete, I, I wasn't even a father then. Yeah. You know, I just recognized like, man, like I, cause the, the thing about gen X man, we are, we are the first generation to really benefit from the fruits right.
Speaker 0 00:27:15 Of the civil rights and civil rights movement to slavery. We're the first generation to really benefit. Yeah. Like we got, we got to freely go to school. We got the, the opportunities. Right. Yep. And, and quite frankly, I mean, we, we are not, you know, that the generat, you think about all the people that advised you when you was coming up mm-hmm <affirmative> like, you know, like I, you know, they, they were preparing you for something. Yeah. Because they had to deal with it. Right. Right. Like, but our generation, I look at my, I be looking at my daughter sometimes like, man, like, I, I need to, I need to put some of that fight in you. That was, was getting put in me. Right. You know what I'm saying? Right. But, but it's hard because we're doing so much better. Right. So, but, but, but you think about that.
Speaker 0 00:27:57 Right. So when I heard that sermon, I'm like, man, I really have to, I really have to start thinking, you know, generational how, like how I don't even have kids yet, but how, what can I leave for them? What can I leave for, for the world? Like, you know what I mean? What type of impact can I make on the world? Right. That spans generations. Right, right. It's you know, and it, it, it's a very important theme, right. That unfortunately, black people, we don't think about that. Like, like honestly, you, you, you look at how we prepare sometimes like, even something as simple as an insurance policy, mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know what I'm saying? If you in ministry, you you've gotten that text before. Right. You know, me, sister, brother, you know what I mean, need us to raise some money, money. We need to do a barbecue to raise some money, a car wash a GoFundMe.
Speaker 0 00:28:42 Yep. Yeah, absolutely. Man. And it's, I mean, and insurance is basic. Like we're not even getting the living will and you know, um, like trust and all that stuff, the insurance policy. Right. Because the other reason why you wanna begin to have these kind of conversations, Pete, is that, you know, um, I don't know if you've ever dealt with, for death, you know, I've dealt with it with my sister, um, before, and I wasn't even as intimate as my older sister who really quarterback and took the lead. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> when you're in that situation, man, it's, you know, it, it, it would be so refreshing. I talked to a young lady a few weeks back who got the opportunity to have the conversation with her parents. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and they, they spelled out everything. Yeah. Like you would've died. What, what would I need to do?
Speaker 0 00:29:24 What, you know, what's the casket, you know, what would you, if we, if you were gonna be on life support, you know, should we fight to keep you, or do you want to go, like she had all these conversations and she shared with me, Pete, that she was at such a peace planning, the future. It was the last thing, because she was really fulfilling the wishes of her parents. Right. You know what I mean? She wasn't guessing. Right. Which can also lead to strife in the family. Right. You know what I'm saying? People back and forth, daddy wouldn't have wanted that. Mommy didn't want, you wouldn't wanna be cremated <laugh> well, we ain't got money to bury him. Absolutely. Right. So, so just again, like the, the more proactive people can be for this conversation, man. I just, you know, you know, again, when you're, when you're dealing with the inevitable, the last thing you wanna deal with is, is that type of stress.
Speaker 0 00:30:08 Yeah. But then again, again, like we talk about the death from what I'm, I'm learning is the easy part, man. The, the actual, if you have to do extended care, like you're doing now with your mom mm-hmm <affirmative> and it, it like for a long period, you gotta get prepared for that. Right. You know what I'm saying? Have you prepared yourself for potentially having to, to bathe a loved one? You know what I'm saying? Like, don't do that. Which one of like, if you have siblings, you know, how, how can we share the load versus it being the burden of one person. Right. I mean, so there's many things you kind of gotta unpack, man. And yeah. I'm like, again, we, we just wanted to tell a story, right. And I'm seeing now how this, this film man has really resonating deeply, um, with people really offer some change.
Speaker 0 00:30:51 You really changing my, uh, my sermon for Easter now. <laugh> I, I was, I was thinking yesterday, now what what's gonna be something that's so impactful and relatable for, like you really making me think about what Easter, Easter morning, uh, is gonna look like when we talk about the resurrection and living, uh, uh, in real and, you know, uh, outside of death, but living, uh, and yeah, man, this is deep. This is good. This is, this is real good. Um, when in your film, uh, inherited, I think what struck me, uh, the most was at the end of the film and I don't wanna, you know, give it away from folks who haven't seen it, but can you talk about just the cuz we were talking about generational wealth and him looking at his, uh, dad's, uh, paperwork and, and then trying to figure out what, you know, the siblings and you know, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 0 00:31:40 And um, uh, I'm trying to, you know, talk about it without like literally the way so no, but I get the preparation one, one of the things is the writer and you know, sometimes it lands, sometimes it doesn't, but, um, I, you know, I, I, I definitely, you know, one of the things I didn't share from that sermon that my pastor preached, um, man, I was so impacted by that, that I went out and got an enduring gift. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, from your listeners who don't know what that is and enduring gift is essentially, um, it's almost like a, a, a Ben you're making a org, a nonprofit organization. In my case, it was my church. Mm-hmm <affirmative> part beneficiary. Right. I left the percentage of, if I were to pass away to them, kind of like my final tides and offering drop to a ministry I love and had committed my life to yeah.
Speaker 0 00:32:29 While I was living. Right. And, um, I say that, right, because, um, I think this is something that, for those that attend black churches, we need to begin to do mm-hmm <affirmative> right. We look at many of these Edes these massive churches led by, um, white folks. Mm-hmm <affirmative> right. You know what I mean? And you, if you were to peak your head in the parking lot or in the building, you like, man, there's six people in there, man. How, right. Right. I able to support this thing now. Yeah. You know, I'm saying like many of times is that people died and they left money mm-hmm <affirmative> in their, in their lead, you know, <laugh> yeah. To the churches. Right. And I, I wanna employ everybody. That's listened, man. Like real look into enduring gifts. If you love your church, if you would've gave to them in life, mm-hmm, <affirmative> give to them in death.
Speaker 0 00:33:11 So the work that you committed your life to doesn't, you know, doesn't get impacted by you leaving. Right. Right. Right. So, um, but yeah, but, but I wanted that to kind, I wanted that to be a small nugget that you see there at the end mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, but, but also the, the legacy part, right. Like, um, I, I wanted, I wanted to see, I wanted to show, uh, a man leaving and thinking about yeah. You know, his, his child's child that's right, right. And I wanted that to really resonate because we don't often, we don't see that man. Like we, you know, again, you know, um, our parents didn't really have a lot to give us, but a lot of game and a lot of wisdom that really propelled us to the success we're having now. Yeah. You know, I'm 42. So I'm like a young gen Xer.
Speaker 0 00:33:56 Yeah. Yeah. Old millennial, I'm kind of in that middle kind of ground. Right. But I just, again, I, you know, I'm looking at my own daughter and thinking about all the game that I got, the, the twice as hard speeches, mm-hmm <affirmative> you can't be acting the fool. You can't, you know, speaking of will Smith, come on, bro. Right, right. You might have forgot a conversation or two, you can't be doing that. You know what I'm saying? Like, but like all of those, all that preparation, you know, um, that, that, um, that they pass on to us in game. Yeah. We're many we're benefiting from man. We're, we're starting our businesses. Yeah. We're, we're buying land. We're, you know, we got, you know, we have these salaries from these jobs. We have all these opportunities. Like now we can't eat it all up. Right. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 0 00:34:36 Like, we like folks gotta pause and really think about man, how can I set up, I gotta keep this. Cause, I mean, if you, you think, you think of the history of the black church, I mean, like, you know, you know, what, what were the thoughts of Frederick Douglass? Mm-hmm <affirmative> what was, what was Harriet Tubman thinking about? Mm-hmm <affirmative> like they, they died, you know, I mean still being three fifths of humans. Yep. But like, they're like, I gotta run my leg yeah. To the point, you know? Like, and I, I mean, I, I, I don't even think they can imagine. Right. What we're, you know what I'm saying? Like, I mean the type of stuff we experiencing, man. I'm yeah. It tripped me out, man, cuz you know, my wife and I, we celebrated our knife anniversary. We went to Puerto Rico and, and um, you know, just this beautiful island, man.
Speaker 0 00:35:20 I, I just had to sit back man, cuz I'm like, man, my, my family vacations growing up was going to see other families. See, you know what saying, driving down, driving, driving for us. It was just driving back to Memphis. That's me. We drove to Maryland to see your cousins. Yeah. You know, we, I saw, we went to Disney world once that's the on, we didn't do all this stuff and I'm like, you know, my, my daughter we've taken her to Mexico. You know what I'm saying? Yep. Like she, you know, like she, you know, she went to Africa where she did all this stuff and I'm like, man, like we, you know, and I'm not, you know, I'm not going to the other extreme of where we can't enjoy some, but I think a conservative effort has to be on building something to lead and then protecting it.
Speaker 0 00:36:00 Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's where the, the overall conversation of, of this film kind of comes in. And that's where, uh, today, as we talk about, you know, the black church, um, and it's legacy, as we talk about legacy building, the black church has, uh, a long legacy in, uh, passing the Baton, um, to the next generation, um, to continue running that race. Uh, but, uh, in today's context, when we think about the black church it's in decline. So it almost feels as like, uh, something happened, the passing of the Baton, uh, uh, you know, I used to run on track. And so as somebody's fumbled, uh, either in the handoff or the receiving, um, or maybe both it wasn't, it's not a smooth transition. And so now we have this decline, uh, in the black church. Uh, but I also know as we, you know, talk about Augustine with the institutional church and the invisible church, there is still an invisible church happening.
Speaker 0 00:36:56 Um, absolutely. And it's happening outside of the institution, um, of the, uh, of the institutional church. Uh, and, and so, um, when we think about legacy, um, and we think about the, the black church's history and its legacy for the 21st century, uh, where do you see, uh, the legacy of the black church today and what needs to happen for the, the, the continuation of its legacy? Yeah, it's man. It's, it's funny, man. I was watching like me, me and my wife went to see Selma Uhhuh few years ago. Ava DuVernay's film. Yep. And, um, did you catch that? You seen that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Powerful film. And I remember turning to her and looking at all these guys, like who were fighting the cause of civil rights and I'm like, babe, they all ministers, you know what I'm saying? Like, and I think, um, I, and I bring that up to kind of start this conversation is that the, the black church, I, you know, in the 21st century, I think we need a, a, a battle to fight.
Speaker 0 00:37:55 I don't know what it is. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so I don't wanna profess to, to, um, to, to say that I have the answers. Right, right. I just think where the Baton got dropped or lost is that, you know, and I said, part of it is the gen X generat. Like we, we, we lost the battle, you know, you know, you know, sometimes the benefits of, uh, integration, Uhhuh, you know, it's not, it's not as clean cut. Right. Because, you know, prior to integration, the black church was strongest because there was a, a remnants of a community because we had to be amongst each other. Right. Right. And then now all of that is kind of dispersed and, and you know, now we're everywhere and there's nowhere to find our community. Right, right, right. But, um, in terms of the church and where, where we need to be, man, I think we, we need to, um, dig back into the word, find our significance in the word mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Speaker 0 00:38:44 Um, and, you know, and, and understand that God may be using us. Right. You know, the, that scripture, Matthew 24 and 14 talks about, you know what I mean? And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached, you know, as a witness, then the end will come, man. We might be getting close, man. You know, this Putin and, and Biden talk. Yeah. You know, I'm saying like, we, you know, we, we could, we, you know, a lot of this, you know, um, is ushering some stuff that's, that's written about in eschatology, right? Yeah. Um, but, but verse that I quoted about, you know, boldly preaching the kingdom of God and getting the understanding of that and, and, and preaching that throughout the world, I think, you know, um, the black church needs to get, you know, involved in getting that message out. Yeah. Um, but then on a tangible, I, I really do think, you know, we, we need to become more of a community advocate.
Speaker 0 00:39:34 Right. If, if we learn anything from, um, you know, um, the, you know, the racial pandemic that happened during the pandemic yep. Is that, that, you know, for the first time it just appeared that the church wasn't welcomed in this conversation. Mm. You know what I'm saying? Like we just, it just, and I'm, it's sad. Um, because, um, man, like again, I, I know the historical, you know, um, significance of the black church and how we they've always been down for the cause. Right. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it was really sad to see the, the church being pushed the side. Right, right. You don't need you for this. And I'm like, wow, you don't need, like, you don't know his, like, you know, like we, we, we need a history lesson. Right, right. I, um, um, I, I also have done some documentary work. Um, um, you know, and I was fortunate, this all kind of happened during the pandemic as well.
Speaker 0 00:40:25 Um, um, with, with Comcast news makers, the NBC show mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, I did one on school to prison pipeline, um, last year. Yep. I watched that one too. Yeah. And, and blessed there. Um, but we, we recorded another one that's kind of in post-production now about the freedom riders and, uh, the progressive youth Alliance, which was a group started here in my, um, where I'm based in Houston, Texas. Okay. And, um, and I, I, I sat and I was a field producer and I interviewed the lady, um, who had literally went through and she kind of walked through a little boycot and demonstration. They did of a, of a restaurant mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, um, this is, this is how deep this thing runs, man. Like I'm sitting talking to her and she's the, and these are college students at Texas univers, Texas other university.
Speaker 0 00:41:11 Yep. And she's like, man, we all, you know, agree to meet at this place on campus. And we're gonna walk down there and she's like, man, we all meet. But she's like, man, I could see it on our faces, man. We all was scared out of our minds thinking about what may happen to us, what our parents gonna think. They sent us to school for all of this. And she said, there was a minister there though. You know what I'm saying? That prayed for us. And after he prayed, we was ready to go. I'm like, man, I'm like, it's. And see, so some of these stories, man, I, I really, and that that's, I'm a content creator, but I'm a big, you know, I, I believe in stories and helping people. Yeah. You know, um, you know, never forget, you know, helping people's faith, get strengthened, man.
Speaker 0 00:41:50 And that, and again, that really hurt me to see the church pushed aside because I, you know, I don't want to say we, we weren't relevant at all. We were there, but we, it was a very active push to get us aside. Yeah. But I, I do think churches do need to, to, to find the battle, get involved in the battle. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, you know, get, not only, I, I talked about worldwide ministry and expanding the gospel, I think we should be doing that. Yeah. But on a very tangible, like, we need, we need to get back into the dog fight. The, the fight is not over that's, you know what I'm saying? We we're, we're benefiting much more than we ever have, but the fight is not over. We, we need the, the church, we can't not be in the conversation. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 0 00:42:29 Like, we, can't not be in the con we can't afford to not be in it. Absolutely. Even if we are the spiritual pulse, you know what I mean? Like, like, just like, like, like, you know, folks, you know, like, like those, those kids were nervous about what they, you know, but they got prayed for like, why aren't we out there praying for them praying for people that got locked up? You know what I'm saying? When they was protesting? You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I, and I think the black church more than any other church, you know, that's the other thing we learned that we, we, you know, the alliances we thought we had, um, black people at white churches or white churches that were partnered with black churches. We, you know, a lot of, you know, you know, and this goes beyond what happened with the Floyd situation, but we started learning this back with Trayvon that right. We weren't really, as you know, we weren't on the same page, you know, what I,
Speaker 0 00:43:24 Thing, last thing, uh, that, um, that I wanna, uh, just talk about, you know, you mentioned it, uh, you talked about will Smith, um, you know, that's the hot take. Uh, and so, uh, I'm sure by the time this airs, all of that talk about, you know, will Smith and whether he did it or shouldn't have done it, all that stuff will have dissipated. Uh, but just, um, uh, just, can you, as a, as a, um, filmmaker, um, um, you know, writer, uh, you know, maybe even actor, I don't know. Uh, but just, can you talk about, you know, what, as a believer, as a black Christian, um, how, how, what, what, how, how do we view, like those type, this type of situation, how do, how do we, how do we help young people dissect even, you know, what's happening, uh, you know, in all the dynamics that are surrounding.
Speaker 0 00:44:19 And so, um, so some of the dynamics that I, that I've been thinking about is, uh, uh, the fact that, um, will Smith assaulted someone on television, right? But Chris rock chose not to file charges, knowing the precarious nature of black men in criminal justice system. So you got that dynamic happening there. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, then you got the dynamic of, uh, honoring women, um, and the two Americas who get to honor women, um, and the violence that ensues when one, uh, America honors their women and black men end up being lynched, uh, in, in a, in a way of, uh, uh, of the other America honoring women. And then, uh, and then the whole idea of protecting the black women and how, you know, uh, Malcolm X talked about the black woman being the most disrespected and not protected. And then we, you know, so you got that dynamic.
Speaker 0 00:45:05 And then the last dynamic I, I thought about was, you know, uh, last Friday, Corey Booker went viral for protecting a black woman, um, who, you know, going for Supreme court justice and then will Smith protecting his wife, you know, in that nature. And so, uh, just all these kind of crazy dynamics that are, you know, uh, at play, uh, just, yeah, what's your hot take, uh, you know, man, you caught me in a good place, man. My, my, my pastor just preached for a month on relationships. <laugh> ah, um, yeah, so I, you know, I guess starting first with, um, just will and Jada, if you follow their story, man, there, you know, they're, they're a lesson on incompatibility if there ever was one. Um, I, yeah, very toxic in many, many regards mm-hmm <affirmative>, it's unfortunate, man. Um, and I, you know, like there, and I'll speak to people's takes on it, but I, you know, I wanna start with just them where, you know, um, the, just the, the firestorm they've gone through with the, her entanglement thing.
Speaker 0 00:46:08 Right, right. I think that's playing somewhere in here, um, will, is definitely outta character for him. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, everybody, like he from west Philly. Yeah. He's from west Philly, man, but that dude's smart from a working class family. He got an MIT on man will ain't will ain't Tupac stop. You know what I'm saying? Like, right, right. He didn't curing his li like, I mean, will like, you know, you know, will, you know, he ain't no street dude. And then, I mean, he gonna wait till he 50 something to be a street, dude, come on this. Right. But, you know, like just, just so just to see them public display, you know what I mean? Yeah. Cause you know, he laughed, you know, and then, you know, I, you you're married, I'm married. Like <laugh> he laughed, you know what I mean?
Speaker 0 00:46:50 He looks over at her. She ain't laughing. I've been there before. Yeah. You know, I'm saying, so this is one of those I gotta clean this up. And it just unfortunate Evolv. Um, it evolve, um, at the honestly, I mean probably the greatest moment of his life, you know what I'm saying? He he's got a long career of success in acting, but you know, he got crown crown, like last night, it was his night. So it's unfortunate to see that the relationship got in away with it, of it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? A ti a tip for women that might be listening that are married. Like you gotta take that one on a chin as hard as it is. Mm. She saw him laughing. This is his night mm-hmm, <affirmative> laughed. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, and y'all know how to pull him aside afterwards.
Speaker 0 00:47:33 You know what I'm saying? Like in the call, like, look, I laugh with you, baby. If you got anything from king Richard, the actual movie, she demonstrated it. I think beautifully. She would rock my husband publicly and then pull his aside. No, don't don't you ever do that to my kids again? You know what I'm saying? Like black women y'all know how to do that. You know what I mean? And I think, I wish that would've happened. Cuz if, if he looked over and she was laughing, you know, maybe he never goes up on stage, you know what I'm saying? Like, so, um, but yeah, so very unfortunate. But in terms of people watching, um, I, you know, and the current I, I hear and that resonate there's a lot out there, but black women, honestly being proud to see their selves being protected. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, that's there.
Speaker 0 00:48:16 I don't understand it in this situation. I cuz I'm I, I understand that black women aren't protected. That's definitely there. What, what Malcolm X shared mm-hmm <affirmative> black women are still the most disrespected. You know what I mean? That when, when crimes get done with them, even in the legal system, the penalties aren't as, as harsh. I mean they're, they're not protected. Yep. I, I get all of that. Right. So my, my outlook is nuanced. So I feel with women who are resonating that man, he protected her. You know what I'm saying? Which is great, but I'm like, nah, not, not like, not like that. Not yeah, not then, you know what I'm saying? Like, so, so on. But, but that, that current is definitely out there, which, you know, if we're, if we're wise men wise, black men that, that have black women in our lives, daughters, aunties, wives, mothers, we, we gotta protect them and they can't be feeling like they not protected.
Speaker 0 00:49:08 Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know what I'm saying? Like, so do whatever you can to protect them. But you know, be wise, you know what I mean? Like it, it doesn't have to be like that, but I do understand the outcry. Yeah. And, and the, um, of women, you know, saying, Hey, he defended her. Yep. Yeah. So it's just crazy, cuz uh, again, by the time this podcast airs, uh, I think the will and Jada conversation will have ended, but I don't think the whole topic of, you know, of all these dynamics will, will, will have ended. So it's still gonna be conversations that that folks will wanna have our need to have. Absolutely. Yeah. We, and like, again, man, I, I just, I really think it needs to, um, to hit whole black, black women can't be feeling like they not protected. Right. That's just right.
Speaker 0 00:49:51 You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, if you're fortunate enough, I mean like black, black women, man, like you talk about the black church man, the black mother and the church, right. The OG OG. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like shoot the pastor, the church is first. So she is why the church is still still an institution, you know, outside the power of the holy spirit of course. But uh, if it wasn't for the black woman the black church would not be, would not survive. Oh yeah. Oh, abso absolutely. Absolutely not. Their significant goals goes beyond question, right. Like goes beyond question, but, but they, they have to feel protected, man. Yep. Yep. You know what I mean? Well, um, I end our podcast, uh, by asking our guests to suggest a, a, a book. What, what's something that you're currently reading that you would, uh, or that you've read that you think is a, a really, uh, a good resource for, for folks.
Speaker 0 00:50:47 Um, and, you know, give us that book and we'll, we always put it in the, in the, um, in the, uh, podcast description for people to check out and any other resources, uh, you shared, you shared a couple, uh, in our interview. And so I wanna make sure we get that, um, as well and put it to be able to put into the link, uh, of our description, what what's a book, and then what's some other resources that you would recommend absolutely. Book. Um, as again, I I've been mentioning my spiritual father who, um, he's a scholar in his own, right. Dr. Dana, Carson's written many books, um, triple, triple doc PhD. So yeah, he's definitely, um, like I said, been, been impactful in my life, but he wrote a book called the five watersheds of Christianity. Um, and which I think is a must read for, for anyone that that's, you know, um, you know, um, has your nose up, or your, you know, your antennas up of the white Jesus and the impacts of, of, um, colonialism white supremacy.
Speaker 0 00:51:46 Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, Europeanism all of that on, on our Christian faith. Like, it's, it's a mu cause it, it really shows, you know, how, you know, um, the, the Jewishness of our faith, which our faith stands on mm-hmm <affirmative> was really drowned out by, by Europeans. Yeah. Right. So it's a, it's a, if you want to record, if you want to figure out why we're here now, the book just does an excellent job of, of showing the, the European impact on the, the negative European impact on Christianity. Right. So, um, so I I'll get you the links for, for folks to that book. Um, in, in terms of resources for me, again, I'm a filmmaker, our production company is color coded films. I think by the time this airs, the film will be out. Okay. Um, and you could just, you know, follow me at brown on Instagram or Sekou brown on Facebook and all the information or color coded films on either Facebook and or, or Instagram and all the information about the film, uh, will be there for you to click the link, to, to view it.
Speaker 0 00:52:51 Because we really want to, you know, we want to sound the alarm. We, we we're rec we thought we were just filmmakers, but we're seeing that now we're potential change agents, man. I, I want the people listening to this, um, to enjoy the conversation. But most importantly, if you are a caregiver, I I'm praying for you. I commend you. I want to encourage you in your journey for caring for your loved one. But if you're not a caregiver, I want you to get begin to be prepared. Yeah. Right. And that's why you need to see the film and begin to have the conversations. Thank you, brother. Thank you. Thank you so much for, uh, being a part of this, uh, black church still speaks podcast. I am, uh, with SKU brown, uh, creative filmmaker from, uh, a Houston, Texas, uh, currently living in Houston, Texas family, man, father, husband, uh, and devoted, uh, a follower of Christ. And so, uh, thank you again, uh, for being a part of, uh, of this, uh, family, uh, uh, podcast, uh, that we have called the black church still speaks.
Speaker 3 00:53:53 Absolutely. The pleasure truly was my,
Speaker 0 00:53:58 Hey, everybody. I hope you enjoyed that interview with SKU brown, if you didn't get it. And if you didn't notice that film inherited is a monster it's, it's one of the really good, uh, independent films that I've watched in a long time. And, uh, it really spoke, and it really speaks about the inherited legacy around race and racism, uh, as well as mental health in the black community and how the black church needs to step into that space, uh, in a real way, also in this interview with OU brown, which I am so thankful for having is talking about the legacy that we leave as African American black people in this country to generations after us. So go check out the film inherited, show it even in your local churches and communities, and begin to have these discussions like we just had on the black church still speaks again. My name is Reverend Peter Watts of the black church still speaks podcasts, and we'll see you next time. Peace.
